This is something I've talked about before (mainly in DMs), and it's probably something that'd only have crossover appeal to a handful of people (and at least one that might hate it to pieces xD). But I often think about writing the equivalent to Steferine's plot in season 5 of The Vampire Diaries for Dick and Catalina Flores. Some tags left on a recent post of mine prompted me to want to talk a bit about it here.

The explanation: Katherine and Stefan met over a century ago; Stefan was initially attracted and drawn to her, but she used compulsion (mind control) during their "relationship", to keep him docile and accepting of the fact that she was... well, a murderous monster. She fed on him, violated him, raped him.

The important part: season 5, over 150+ years later. Katherine has been stripped of her powers, turned human, and had what amounted to a terminal illness (her 500+ years were catching up to her). Stefan, who at the time had been feeling vulnerable and sought to grasp for control, ended up choosing to have a one night stand with Katherine. She took this as ~reconnecting, as another step in their grandiose love story. To him, this was closure.

Later, she's on her (supposed) deathbed and Stefan extends her some grace, using his own vampiric powers in order to offer her some closure in (what he thinks are) her last moments, conjuring images of a happier version of her human youth: with the newborn daughter that was taken from her for having a baby out of wedlock and the family that was brutally slaughtered when Katherine refused to be a sacrificial pawn in someone else's schemes.

This is not really the end of Katherine this season, because instead of going quietly in that good night (as if), she hijacks the body of her doppelganger (a younger vampire with her own romantic past with Stefan) and tries to ~seduce him back. She's found out, and Stefan gets to be the one to deliver the killing blow.

(She returns as the final boss in the very last season, and he stabs her + sacrifices himself in the process in order to save the world. They die together in a literal fiery embrace -one of his past victims summons hellfire, it's a long story-; this is not relevant to the point of this post, I just like it, for Reasons).

I don't know yet what the equivalent of this story would be for Dick and Catalina. The killing is (most likely) out, for obvious reasons; Dick wouldn't find closure in that, or in Catalina dying in an unrelated or different manner (and I don't want to kill her). Neither of them have vampiric power nor do I want to give it to them LOL (here we could draw some parallels between vampirism/vigilantism, though each of their relationships with it is basically inverted from Steferine's).

But I would want that same feeling of... Catalina being in a vulnerable, "lower" place than she once was [1], and this allowing Dick to approach her from a moral high ground, where he can... idk how to explain this. Afford? Being ~heroic and generous towards her in a way that makes him feel soooo good about himself, as opposed to how miserable he felt when he was actually with her in Devin Grayson's run, when he felt "stuck" with her and tried to find something sympathetic in her and clearly loathed every second together and used it as self-punishment. And then yeah, the part where Catalina manages to turn the tables on him, and he now must be proactive to stop her. We'll see.
 

[1] As I typed that I just had a great idea of how to do this 😈. This is why I love blabbing on tumblr dot com, thank you everyone.

[crossposted from fandomgiftbasket]

I'm taking this chance to expand some rambling thoughts I've had about Hal, Dinah, and Ollie (and Roy, a bit) + sexualities into a (hopefully) coherent meta. These are characters I'm familiar with (less so Hal), but not so much that I would categorically insist in my views of them, and I'd definitely welcome discussion! Here, or on my blog, where I'll probably crosspost this meta once it's revealed.

First of all, I think it'd be fair to say that when it comes to queer headcanons, fandom tends to go for a queernorm approach. This is perfectly acceptable, and an understandable form of escapism. I certainly don't mind reading stories that follow this path, though sometimes I have grips with their worldbuilding: a world without heteronormativity would be so different from our own in so many big and small ways that it requires a far bigger exercise in imagination than your average getting together story allows, you know?

For that, and other reasons, such as what I happen to find personally resonant, I tend to take the opposite approach, where I stick to our world's heteronormative structure and explore, if a character happened to be queer, how would they be affected by it? How would it shape them? How would it change their story, or what parts of it would illuminate and shift focus to? How would they feel about it, and how would other people react to it, in a world that others this experience?

Another approach I have when it comes to the DC fandom in particular is that I love grounding my speculation/headcanons/fic premises etc. on the contemporary years the comics I'm building upon were set. I think it helps give those stories a specificity and… distinctive flavour? That sometimes can be lost in more "yeah, just assume this happens in our own time" stories, where the audience is meant to fill in the blanks the author, sometimes purposefully, leaves. In this case, for example, for this I'm using Hard Traveling Heroes, aka the '70s, as a starting point, and building from there. So with that in mind…

As I've mention, I'm less familiar with Hal than the others characters listed here, meaning I've read less comics of his (all in due time, though). Between the ones I've read (including some featuring Hal/Carol), and discussions between and with GL fans, I've started to develop a headcanon (or reimagining, depending on how close or far from canon you feel this would be) of Hal as a self-aware, but deeply closeted and repressed gay man. It could also be easy to imagine him as someone who only on very few occasions feels attracted to women (an Kinsey 0.5, if you will), for the purpose of Hal/Dinah. Would he have clinged to that as hard as he could, if she wasn't his buddy's girlfriend? His buddy who he has a set of very complex feelings for he's not looking at too closely? His buddy he'd later painstakenly put together molecule by molecule to bring him back from the dead? And gosh, that whole period —if things had been different (less Parallax and Spectre shaped), how could Hal/Dinah have developed? Hal brought back Ollie for Ollie's sake, and for himself, due to his love for him. Maybe for Dinah's sake too.

But I disgress (disgressing in a Hal/Dinah/Ollie direction, which I hope it's fine!). My point is that I've thought about a lot about this deeply closeted Hal. It would be interesting to ground his story with real-life examples of Leonard Matlovich or Harvey Milk, as publically out gay men at the time, for example (the first one from the Air Force, too). The point is, I'm picturing as someone who knew exactly what he was and thought of it as something to hide and reject. He joined the army, a place where being found out could entail serious risks, and at the very least a lifelong ban, at this time. What if he <i>was</i> found out, maybe the first time he truly allowed himself to explore that side of him? Would he pledge to never have "homosexual relations" with other men again to be allowed to stay? Would he refuse and be discharged? I can picture both parts… especially paired with the idea that the man he was caught with was a fellow pilot who took the opposite choice (I usually picturing him taking the opposite route to Matlovich and burrowing deeper into the closet, at this point in his life). Those are all questions I'd love to explore for the sake of enriching this backstory.

Here's where Roy can enter the picture, as a queer man of a much younger generation. I could picture him exploring his feelings for other guys at the same time as Snowbirds was going down —away from Ollie, expectations he could project onto him, seeking warmth and comfort in his loneliness at the time. To me, Roy could come across as someone who is both aware and more accepting about himself than Hal is, in this scenario. But in canon he's very boastful about his relations to women, from the committed to the most casual ones, so we can read into his silence for the other side in various ways. For example: yes, he is at peace with his queerness, he refuses to internalise it as something that's wrong about him, but he's aware of how the world at large would see it and chooses to be very discerning about how he discloses it. It could be interesting to contrast this with his advocacy regarding addiction; maybe, eventually, he'd be as open about it as with it. Or maybe it feels more personal, closer to the chest, and he's protective about it.

It'd also be interesting to explore Hal & Roy's dynamic on this front, with this contrast, especially if Roy's queerness is discovered by Hal in Snowbirds, and part of how Hal steps up to help Roy could be a more honest conversation he's ever had with anyone else on the matter.

In Dinah and Oliver's case, I once joked about how maybe they only realise they are queer (in their case, I like to picture them both as bisexual) after their divorce, which would take us much further down in their timeline. In this case, I'd picture them as very unaware, out of touch with this side of them, especially if they worked with a mentality (even if only applied to themselves) that you can only like men or women.

And well, Ollie is MAD about women! They're incredible, and sexy, and gorgeous, and kickass. And I picture Ollie as someone who isn't wired for the type of hostile attraction many people feel, the "I hate this person, but they're so hot, it makes me SO angry!" type, or at least not in any self-aware way. His buddies are his buddies, and he loves them. He'd kiss them, sure! Because they are his buddies! But he's just being affectionate, and well, he's not a homophobe, so obviously the idea of kissing a buddy doesn't fill him with disgust!

Dinah is similar. Of course women are attractive! They put more care into their appearance and grooming, they dress well and don't just put on sweatpants and are absolute slobs all around (she also prefers well-groomed men). But that's just how it is! She's just appreciating beauty! In abstract! Everyone does it!

Then some time after the divorce she has sex with Shiva and it rewires her brain.

(Sorry to Dinahshiva post, it's a rareship I've thought about a lot lately. Their first meeting in Green Arrow Annual #1 is downright adorable).

I'm being a bit blasé with both of them, but I do think that, despite the fact that it would be a bit of a shock to them, as it is for a lot of people who realise they're not heterosexual later in life and have to rearrange their self-image, for both of them it could become a source of joy and exploration at the time. It'd be interesting to imagine exploring their queerness separately, and coming back to each other afterwards, maybe in part through bonding because of it. And maybe with Hal in the mix, as a new grounding element in the relationship. A Hal who after the years, and likely, after his experience as the Spectre (or maybe still as the Spectre, there are endless possibilities in that set-up...), has found peace and acceptance that used to feel so distant and impossible for him.

It wasn't and easy journey, there was no short-term satisfaction, but I find the idea of these three people who've known each other for so long, who've gone through so much pain and suffering and conflict both together and separately, finding this comfort and solace and joy with each other later in life, very appealing.

I'd love to hear your thoughts!